Saturday, June 23, 2007

Hey Spanky!

I grew up in a culture and society where spanking is a form of discipline rather than violence. I was spanked god knows how many times and admittedly, it did me a world of good. My parents never hit me -- now that's different. They spanked me when I was seriously asking for it. I was the type of kid who always tried to push the limits seeing how much I can get away with. Hardly angelic, I know.

We always had to cope with different kinds of pressure and stress as children. Mine, unfortunately, centered on grades and academics. My parents believed in working hard, doing well in school and getting distinctions. I never understood it though -- not until now. If my parents didn't push me towards that direction -- with spanking or not -- I wouldn't be where I am today. They instilled high standards in us, their children, and we accepted nothing less. Sure, there were a lot of disappointments growing up because of these things but c'est la vie, no?

I'm very sure that there are numerous people out there who will disagree with me regarding this. I have met parents who believe in "talking sense" to their children even at a young age. Perhaps I need to be a parent first before I fathom this but at this point, I couldn't help but wonder -- how do you talk sense into a two-year-old?

One thing that really grates me are those parents who couldn't control their children whilst out in public. Once I was at the mall doing my obligatory Christmas shopping, and there was a kid, three-years-old at most, on the floor kicking and screaming bloody murder. It was bad enough that I had to work over time that day, then I had to muscle in to do my holiday shopping with the crowd, and now there's this brat who is creating so much chaos in the middle of the floor. Just what I needed. I looked around to see where her mum was. And when I spotted her, she was chuckling at the sight of her daughter saying "Isn't she cute?"

Hel-lo?!?!

Thankfully, an equally distressed lady who seem to be not enjoying the scene told the highly inconsiderate mother that her kid was disturbing the shoppers. The mother gave her a dirty look and proceeded to fetch her banshee-child. I kid you not, the child attacked her! The mother was so taken aback and didn't know what to do. Her daughter left a horrible gash on her neck and continued to wail -- this time at a much higher pitch. For a while there, I felt instantly bad for the mother because she looked so helpless.

I'm sorry, but how in the world can one talk sense into someone like that? That little girl seriously deserved either a spanking or a tweak in the ear. I would never have pulled something like that as a kid -- just imagining what my mother could have done to me! In fairness though, my mother never spanked or pinched me in public. There was always that dreaded car ride back home where I know I did something wrong and I was going to pay high prices for it. In hindsight, probably the funniest thing my parents ever did to us as punishment was to kneel on rock salt for an hour with heavy encyclopedias on each hand whilst they were outstretched. Of course, I didn't find it funny back then -- but I tell you, whatever I did to deserve that, I sure as hell never did it again!

Just the other day, a colleague of mine was regaling his weekend to me. He adores his kids, and indeed he had two of the cutest little girls I've ever seen. Incidentally, his older daughter is at that cheeky age where she is big into experimenting. In the process, she broke a vase that she was told thousands of times not to touch. My colleague said, "Well, I had no choice but to spank her. And I did it in front of my other daughter so she'd learn from it too." He sounded so pained when he said he had to perform the deed.

My parents always told us back then that they only spank us because they love us. It sounded like outright bullshit at the time, but I do see the bigger picture now. My parents have always wanted the best for us and they want us to be the best people that we can be. They gave us absolutely everything -- to the point where we could have easily grown up as spoiled brats. They disciplined us in order to keep our feet on the ground. See, my parents always knew which buttons to push. After a certain age where it's no longer appropriate to spank us, she took away our luxuries. Millions of times I got grounded from the phone, from television, from seeing my friends -- man, were those terribly humbling.

To each their own, is what I always say. I believe in spanking -- not hurting and not hitting -- as a form of discipline. And I probably will do the same to my kids too. But who am I to say as I still am not in that situation? Well, I don't know but I think I have a pretty good idea.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Post Script:

I will be taking a quick holiday Down Under for a week and a half. I think I need the change of scenery. After all, traveling to as many destinations as I can is part of my grand plan of dominating the world. I'll be back though. I shall miss everyone :)


66 Comments:

Anonymous Electric bearbearina said...

I have to hand it to your parents: they were very creative with their punishments. Kneeling on rock salt while holding encyclopedias? Classic!

11:05 AM  
Blogger Sudipta Chatterjee said...

Simply put, I agree --- it is a big deterrent.

Have a great trip and post the photos, please! :)

12:29 PM  
Blogger Inside our hands, outside our hearts said...

Princess,

Safe trip and hurry home.

Now as for spanking, I cannot do it. There are other ways and I think that you can make a child understand and mind his manners.

But I come from a home where hitting was the course and that was the easy part. So I choose not to hit. But I do not judge others that believe in spanking. As you said.. spanking and hitting are two different things.

I will offer you this. Here people are afraid to spank their children. They are afriad to discipline for fear someone will think they are abusing their children. Then on the other hand those very people that think spanking is abusing say what bad parents others are because they didn't discipline their children. It is a rock and a hard place.

I believe children should know their manners and control themsleves. however, when you are told you are abusive becasue you spank and then called bad parents when you do not. What are they to do?

I cannot compare my childhood there was nothing normal about it. But I think parents are confused and put up with the sort of behavior you witnessed because they think there are no other options. Personally, I think "those" people need to mind their business and focus on the real abusers.

1:51 PM  
Blogger William said...

Attacked the mother?!

She doesn't need a spanking. She needs a straightjacket or a good exorcism.

1:54 PM  
Blogger Ancalagon The Black said...

Incidentally, the UNICEF has ruled that spanking children for disciplinary purposes doest not constitute assault.

The reason why I say is that when I was on an academic trip to Atlanta, I was told by many of my white friends that spanking was illegal in the USA and that children could report their parents to the law if they were spanked.

I have many cousins living on the West Coast and often they visit me in India. During their last visit, their child broke a vase, punched a hole into my 21" LCD monitor (it was rendered useless) and dropped my digital camera on the floor(again, it became useless)

If I were their parents, I would thrash their children just as my parents did to me and I really appreciate them doing it because I have turned out to be far more respectful of others and well behaved than most of my peers.

These same cousins, meanwhile talked about "infinite patience" and took no action on their children other than a mere shouting which dissipated when they started to cry and the children were mollycoddled !!

The same principle works on circus animals. Training is very important and for that, spanking for disciplinary purposes is required.

2:19 PM  
Blogger Aditi said...

I dont remember being spanked too often but the sight of my siblings getting spanked when they had absolutely pushed the limits was enough. Even that was rare. Be it spanking or something else the child needs to know who is in charge and it discipline at times is needed, whatever the method.
I guess to spank or not to spank is a bridge i will cross when i will get to it.

enjoy the vacation...

3:55 PM  
Blogger Andrew said...

Bit of a hard one Princess. Childless like you obviously, I used to think that you could reason with kids, but no, they are kids. I don't recall getting spanked, but there was always the threat. I get fed up with, 'don't do that darling' and the kid takes no notice. Here we have an epidemic of 'attention deficit disorder'. Perhaps something that a spanking might cure. Enjoy downunder, west coast is it?

7:12 PM  
Blogger self taught artist said...

I can appreciate what you are saying princess, but honestly its strange and controlling to imagine being a parent and actually hitting, swinging...call it what you want you are hitting a bottom and the point is to cause pain/stinging something unpleasant. Thats messed up. It then brings up the issue how bizarre it is to control. Fine line between steering and controlling. I guess I don't understand why people have children all to push them into this direction and that direction instead of watching where the child is inclined to go in life.
I'm sure many will disagree with me but hey, its how I feel.
I got spanked my fair share and when I sit here and remember the energy around all that it is antognistic. I honestly can't recall getting spanked when I didn't purposely aggrevate the situation just to annoy my mother. So I was taught in a sick way to do something to then recieve pain and humiliation. I'm sure there were innocent times, but I don't recall ever doing my own thing and getting spanked for it. Know what I'm saying?

9:53 PM  
Anonymous susan said...

I think the trick to being a parent and bringing up well-behaved and responsible children is to be consistent. Always, always back up what you say.

Too many parents today want to be friends with their child. That's all well and fine, but the kids need to know who the parent is. They need to have boundries set and enforced. Parents have to be willing to tell their child that things are unacceptable and to teach them the right way. I am very creative with my punishments...it always relates to the crime and makes a point. I'm ok with my kids being angry with me. They almost always toe the line.

I personally am opposed to spanking. I have memories of being force to bend over and touch my toes while the belt was used on me. It wasn't done in anger but as a disipline. Then, as now, I felt it was wrong. Amazingly, my teens have turned out pretty well...without ever having been spanked.

1:21 AM  
Blogger floots said...

thanks for looking in on me
and giving me a chance to read some of your work
i'm certainly 200% with you on this one
cheers

1:47 AM  
Blogger Princess of the Universe said...

It's so hard to comment on this, since I have no children.
I was spanked when it was deserved and I don't really think there are any negative therapy-inducing effects on me because of it.

I think society is scared to discipline children properly now, and it's an unfortunate trend.

I don't think the occasional swat on the bottom is going to permanently damage a child- but it is a fine line.

2:27 AM  
Blogger mathew said...

you have written on a topic which is very close to my heart...
coz i was spanked a lot..i mean mainly coz on academics..but respecting my parents i must admit that I seriously was really angry those times..I hated them like anythin for it..I do admit that they did it all for my own good..But honestly I dont believe it was the right way out..

A kid is as fragile as venitian glass..The scars you get as a kid maynot necessarily rub off..Just that you and I understand now that it was all for our own good isnt the answer..

I believe spanking happens when parents run away from understanding the kid..it is more or less a easy way out..

I seriously cant think of doin the same to my kid..coz i was really upset when I was a kid!!..
good thougtful post!!

3:29 AM  
Blogger mathew said...

well a edit..

I seriously cant think of doin the same to my kid

rephrased as

I seriously cant think of doin the same to my kid when I have one!! ;-P

3:31 AM  
Blogger drips of paint said...

Hi Princess,

Damm, I envy you...at Down Under, sun bathing with your tiny 2 piece suit...lucky the spanking did not leave any mark at your tussy ...but most of all I envy you for having such great parents.

Sounds like a doze of dicipline; love and spending time together with ones kids can do a lot of good for the planet. Not that this formula will always work but missing one of these ingredient I think will make it so much tougher in this already pretty tricky life.

Yah I remember my time too, do not know how these Asian parents got so creative in coming up of all those torture technique. Unfortunately for me, spanking was plenty but parents not around most of the time. Had no idea what love is growing up, I mean intellectually I do but how do you live it having pretty bad example. Pretty screwed up uhh?

I agreed with you whole heartedly. Loving parents means spanking but not hitting, spending time with the kids if you could and most of all letting them know you love them. Dicipline is part of the letting them know you do love them.

Great post, great analogy regarding spanking vs hitting.

Hope you have the splendiest time down under.

tim

3:51 AM  
Blogger Kati said...

ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY!!!!! Ironically, it seems it's often the folks who aren't yet parents who can't stand the thought of swatting a child on the behind. Those of us who know better know how well-padded those behinds are at 2 and even 3 years old.

Though, there is something to be said for avoiding trouble in the first place by trying one's darndest not to take a child grocery shopping (or christmas shopping) when said child is already ready for a nap. It also helps to know you're child's personality. Sometimes spanking only makes matters worse, and more creative discipline (such as your parents inflicted) or even a stern scolding will do a better job on some children then will spanking. Some children only get more obstinate when swatted.

Had to laugh at a friend's anecdote about his teenage daughter who went to the cops because Dad (our friend & neighbour) said he'd beat her butt if she ran away (as she was threatening to, if he didn't let her do as she wanted). The cops told her that if she ran away and they found her, they'd hold her while Dad kicked her ass. Our local cops have been known to applaud a parent swatting an unruly child on the backside. *grin*

Have a great vacation! And I'm also hoping you'll post lots of pictures when you return!

5:10 AM  
Blogger X. Dell said...

Happy holiday down under. Have a good time, and come back with great stories.

I wonder, though, does a child really understand the concept of deterrence any more keenly than a simple admonistion?

I would also point out that I come from a culture and time where all children were spanked, and not only by their parents. At the same time, the degree of delinquency and adulthood criminality are higher than in younger generations that did not spank as much.

5:10 AM  
Blogger ThanKwee-Anajo said...

A child should always say what's true.
And speak when he is spoken to, And behave mannerly at table:
At least as far as he is able

~Robert Louis Stevenson

8:14 AM  
Blogger Johnny Yen said...

As a parent and a teacher-- and for that matter, as a part-time waiter-- I am stunned by the current style of parenting. Apparently "no" is a word parents don't believe in using. Everything needs an explanation or a negotiation. It's unbelievable.

One of the reasons I am leaving teaching is the parents. When I was a kid, if I got in trouble, I got in trouble with the teacher, then my mother, then my father. My parents sided with my teachers-- the adults. I can't tell you how many times as a teacher I've had parents go to a principal because I was "picking' on their poorly-behaved child.

Also, as a waiter, I see many parents (their not the majority) who let their kids run them, and/or kids who have horrific manners in a public place.

I probably had to spank my son, who now 13, under five times when he was little. If you do it at the right time and make your behavior expectations clear, you don't have to do it often-- but you do sometimes have to do it.

9:14 AM  
Blogger Johnny Yen said...

As a parent and a teacher-- and for that matter, as a part-time waiter-- I am stunned by the current style of parenting. Apparently "no" is a word parents don't believe in using. Everything needs an explanation or a negotiation. It's unbelievable.

One of the reasons I am leaving teaching is the parents. When I was a kid, if I got in trouble, I got in trouble with the teacher, then my mother, then my father. My parents sided with my teachers-- the adults. I can't tell you how many times as a teacher I've had parents go to a principal because I was "picking' on their poorly-behaved child.

Also, as a waiter, I see many parents (their not the majority) who let their kids run them, and/or kids who have horrific manners in a public place.

I probably had to spank my son, who now 13, under five times when he was little. If you do it at the right time and make your behavior expectations clear, you don't have to do it often-- but you do sometimes have to do it.

9:58 AM  
Blogger foam said...

i have never spanked my children for grades. when my oldest was in middle school his grades dropped because he went through a period of not doing his homework. i just took away all electronic priviledges. no computer, no nintendo, no stereo, no tv....it worked like a charm.

when my sons were toddlers they did pitch the ocassional tantrum and some of those in public places. i remember carrying my oldest out of the mall while he was kicking and screaming. it was so bad that the mall police followed me. i think they thought i was kidnapping him. i didn't give those tantrums positive feedbacks but trust me, spanking a child who is in the throws of a tantrum does not help matters. it just makes it worse. and so, by the time you are home the tantrum is over....the child might even be asleep since it was probably exhausted in the first place...
so, you gonna spank the child then?

should you ever have children you will figure it out.

10:44 AM  
Blogger Stinkbait Boucher said...

"Get down here! We're going to the hospital!" my father said.

"Why?" I yelled back.

"To get my foot removed from your ass!" he responded.

I used that line on my thirteen-year old daughter the other day. We ended up laughing so hard that she choked and eventually threw up a day's worth of PEZ and cotton candy.

Amateur.

Damn kids these days...

11:45 AM  
Blogger phishez_rule said...

My parents spanked. Well, I should say my spanked, and my father went ballistic with a whip. I don't like my father much.

But you need control over your kids, while they are still learning proper ways to behave AND to be able to simply stop them if they are about to do something dangerous.

11:50 AM  
Blogger Lord Chimmy said...

I was spanked. Spanking did me a world of good. So, to all the non-spanking parents out there...I grew up into a fully functional adult without mental problems. And, I get along with my parents to boot. Spanking didn't teach me to hit other people. Spanking taught me not to be a little shit.

Now, that the "time-out" kids are getting older...let's sit back and see what kind of adults they become.

I've always believed in the power of good old-fashioned behaviorism. B.F. Skinner and John Watson developed a system that works.

12:25 PM  
Blogger whimsicalnbrainpan said...

I think a good spanking when needed is a good thing as long as it is not done out of anger. Too many kids are out of control these days. It seems like parents want to be friends with their kids more than parents.

Have fun and safe travels!

1:51 PM  
Blogger thisisme said...

I hope you are having a wonderful time in my country and not freezing. Not having kids, I'm probably not qualified to comment, but I'm very impressed with the way that some of my friends are bringing up their children. Please and thank you are compulsory. We were out last night and so many people came up and congratulated them on their children's beautiful manners.

5:57 PM  
Blogger fifi said...

That rock salt thing... I thought you were being funny...tell me your'e kidding?

I could blab away for hours, but just briefly.
You cannot know the fear and terror and motivations arising from parenting unless you have done it. Friends, nieces, cousins...it aint the same. Anyone who tries to advise me on childrearing who isn't a parent, I take with a grain of salt.
Becoming a parent changes your very being.
Observing a tantrum in public is a completely different prospect to having to endure it as a parent.


Quite recently i just gave my son a big spanking because he just needed it and it worked. My friends were horified. Its illegal: the kids know this.


anyway. you have a great time here, wherever you are, and for your sake, i hope you are in far north queensland, or you'll be shivering.

8:25 PM  
Blogger Sunshine said...

I wrote a post about discipline a few months ago, and there are certainly a variety of viewpoints. (I don't know how to link things in comments, or I'd try) My post was basically a refute to another blogger's notion that people who DO NOT spank are lazy or something sort of ridiculous like that. We do big doses of time out with spanking doled out in times of severe reinforcement (like if somebody small runs into the street...behavior that is dangerous).
Anyway, it's a tricky topic and I enjoyed your perspective.

10:13 PM  
Blogger thethinker said...

I was spanked many times as well. I see no problem with it. I do, as you mentioned, have a problem with parents who have no control over their children. I was in a shoe store last week and this woman with four children seemed to be amused by the fact that two were playing hide and seek between the aisles (bumping into other customers) and one was pushing a stroller into the racks (and, once again, the customers). The store employees had to try to get the kids in order. It was horrible.

1:15 AM  
Blogger Sling said...

If we really love our children,then we want them to grow up to be responsible adults.Children are geared to test their limits.It's their job.
Our job is to set standards of behavior,and make them understand that there are consequences for their actions.
A swat on the butt for misbehavior is a small price to pay,when you consider the more serious consequences thay will face as adults.

12:45 PM  
Blogger mathew said...

http://my-think-pad.blogspot.com/2006/12/pruned-to-imperfection.html

1:54 PM  
Blogger Glamourpuss said...

I'm not that into the whole physical discipline thing with kids, but firmly believe discipline is the duty of every parent - a duty more and more woefully ignore. As a teacher I had to manage up to 80 kids at a time, when I see parents unable to manage even one, it make my blood boil.

Puss

6:20 PM  
Blogger self taught artist said...

I want to add this: I have to believe that if you were a healthy enough individual you would not get so frustrated that you had to spank (swat, hit, its no different) your child out of a last ditch effort to get them to stop whatever behavior they were doing that you didn't approve of. It only shows that you don't know how to bring up a child if you have to resort to behavior you shouldn't even do to a dog.

9:31 PM  
Blogger Andre Veloux said...

Hitting children is wrong. Hitting anyone is wrong and it's not necessary. If you hit your children for doing something wrong, then they have every right to do the same to you if you do something wrong.

9:57 PM  
Blogger AVIANA said...

Hey,

yea I grew up being beaten with a leather belt mostly by my father whom I still don't have a good relationship with. why well, a number of personal reasons...but i do remember as a child being able to reason things and no understanding why my father as an adult could not reason...even now i think back and think "wow how could you reason that way as a 5 year old?"

i don't ever forgive my parents i particular for beating me with a belt...it may work for some but for me it did not...i thought the beatings came out of anger..there was no logic and reasoning behind it....

i'm against it and will always be...that I can say with a great surety....

have a nice trip!

2:33 AM  
Blogger Jennifer McK said...

I love this post Princess. It's a topic that really brings out all sorts of opinions.
Mine is this. Sometimes little toddlers pay no attention to voice, time outs or anything else. And believe me, getting them INTO time out if they're on a tear is a physical altercation as it is! I do a combinations. Around our house, spanking is reserved for HUGE offenses. Deliberate destruction, playing with power tools (even if they're put away and locked up. My kids are smart that way) or running out in the street are all spanking offenses. And very, very rare.
The great thing is that my kids are pretty well behaved. We're all very verbal and it makes "explaining" things go well....most times.
I don't hit my kids. I don't even swing hard enough to hurt them (and if I'm mad enough to do so, I don't do it. And I tell them that.)
Have a wonderful time down under.

4:12 AM  
Blogger soul&body said...

I dont agree with hitting children, but im in about talking with them and explain with is right or wrong. punishments yes but not hiting.
The edcucation is very important as studying too
enjoy the trip!!! =)

8:20 AM  
Blogger Matt said...

As a parent, I'd have to say I'd be less bothered by the behavior and the cheekiness and the lying and the farting around... then with the fact that I no longer had a nice vase.

Used to have a nice vase. Now I have none.

11:12 AM  
Blogger Lucid Darkness said...

My own behind has been, let's say, 'paddled' many times when I was a kid. My mother is an expert at spanking-to-induce-momentary-harlmess-pain-without-any-permanent-damage. And speaking of interesting forms of punishment, my father had once made me stand with my hands in the air for ages. It had worked wonders (although I was not amused then).

A little bit of spanking now and then is definitely required to outline boundaries for a growing child. In case of a monster-in-child's-clothing like the kid you mentioned, it is even more essential. Two-year-old's can't even spell the word 'sense', how, pray tell, would they know it?

I love this post and admire your organisation and wit. Your writing rocks!

PS: Bon voyage!

12:11 PM  
Blogger Ancalagon The Black said...

Once again, since some of the comments seem to mention the legality of spanking, it is indeed legal to spank children for disciplinary purposes (UNICEF and US Supreme Court)

5:58 PM  
Blogger Monica said...

sometimes i think parents overlook the fact that their children are obviously rabid. that's why they are constantly throwing fits and apparently ATTACKING their mothers.

1:48 AM  
Blogger paddy said...

Have a great time.
No Spanky.
Y;-) Paddy

1:48 AM  
Blogger Ab said...

ha... spanking... wen i was young, discipline was the first and last word at home.
I remember how every1 in our parish used to be fascinated with the parents of th 6 month old kid who used to sit without making any noise or feeling hungry for the length of the 2 hr service. wat they didn know was that mom would pinch our undersides the moment we decided we were going to act our age by bawling :)
later on, it was grounding. you are not singing in that choir because you didn get enough mnarks for Hindi i remember, that was when i got a chance to sing the lead, for a school play, and i was just 10 yrs old, and Hindi i still dont know.. Im not sure i will use those kind of punishments with my kids, if at all.
but net net, i was better off for all the punishments, and if i grow kids thisll be the only way.

hav a fun vac, hope it doesnt get washed out. had a wonderfull flood all around my house, wen i went home this weekend...

3:06 PM  
Blogger Anu said...

very true!! children do need proper disciplinary actions...else we will just have more adolecent deliquents amidst us...

couldn't agree more!! do come back soon from the vacation with a post!!

waiting for your next one! :-)

1:16 AM  
Blogger StandbyMind said...

down the time line..we shal ur kids writinga similar post on goods of spanking...
till then happy spanking
lol
:)
happy vacations!!!!

5:24 PM  
Anonymous Kyla Bea said...

Hey Princess,

Have a good trip! I'm going to have to be one of the people who disagrees with you though. As a shy child I know that had my parents spanked me I would have been a very, very, different person and I don't know that I would have come through it alright.

The example that you give of that girl isn't a fair one I don't think- this is a little girl who, from her mother's reaction, has had little to no discipline in her life and because of this would reasonably lash out against it.

I think that for me, teaching children that they shouldn't do something because they'll get hurt if they do misses the point. Does it stop the behavior? Sure, and if that's the only concern then physical punishment probably wouldn't be looked down upon. But physical punishment doesn't teach the "Why".

And I'm not talking about high level reasoning here, but "Because yelling scares other people- do you know how it feels like to be scared? It feels bad to feel like that, right? Would you like to make someone feel like that?" is not at all a line of reasoning that's outside of the grasp of a two year old.

Spanking this little girl wouldn't explain to her why freaking out in the supermarket isn't good- and not just why it isn't good for a three year old, but why it's not good for anyone. You're right, you couldn't talk to her about it then- just like you can't talk sense to an adult in a road rage confrontation. But I don't think that anyone would argue that physically disciplining someone in a road rage would knock some sense into them- even if it was done by the police. And there's a basic logic to that extends to our children.

I think the problem with spanking is that many people have trouble expressing themselves and it's frankly much easier to spank than to explain once your child is out of the upsetting situation. While your parents might have used it as part of a measured approach to discipline, I would caution your encouragement because I doubt many are as tempered.

In my opinion we need to teach the "why"s behind desirable and non-desirable behavior. If the reason we don't act out only extends to "because I'll get spanked" then once children are too old to be physically disciplined, or are large enough to defend themselves or evade, how are we to reason with them if we haven't taught them that reason is the answer?

8:59 PM  
Blogger Nithya N said...

have a great holiday!! it seems to be take-off period of the year. And i'm jsut back. Thanks gor dropping by.

9:49 PM  
Blogger Crashdummie said...

screaming and kicking kiddoes in the shopping center - the horrer!

Awww you have a great trip and do tell the stories once your back!

Cheers!

9:50 PM  
Blogger Molly said...

My F-I-L said that he remembers kneeling on pebbles as punishment when growing up in the Ukraine.
I think the people who need spanking the most are the adults who allow their children to run amok....

1:23 AM  
Blogger samrina said...

Hi Princess,

Well i guess there can be many other ways too to make a child understand anything or make him/her disciplined. Anyhow i enjoyed reading your casually written post :)

Have a nice trip & be careful.

Regards,

Samrina

2:18 AM  
Blogger Mel said...

In my opinion there are a lot of way to successfully discipline a child. Whatever way you choose the only part that really matters is consistency. If you use love and logic use it. Don't waver in your punishments. My niece is ruled by love and logic and now she picks her own punishments. Sure she is a brat sometimes but it never last long because as soon as she smarts up with an attitude her parents are whispering in her ear and letting her know that she can either choose to be happy and friendly or she can go home, to time out, and not get to play with her friends again any time soon. We all have to do what works for us.

2:51 AM  
Blogger supergirlest said...

just popped over from angry ballerina's site to say hi and have a read!

funny, this came up the other day at work. i also have a two year old, and could never fathom hitting him. sidenote - i was never spanked. thing is, you have to hit a kid pretty hard for a spanking to have the intended effect. that chick at the mall should have removed her child - i can't get my brain around people that expect little ones that have been on the planet for a total of 900 days to behave as a fully developed adult would. then again, i work in a bar - and my two year old has better manners than half of the people that come in there - i love those that throw a fit after i card them and they've just turned 21. *sigh*

there are other ways to discipline that aren't so creepy as spanking. i mean, think about it - if i hit someone my own age, i'd be arrested for assault. but it's ok to hit someone 1/4 the size of me? bizarro.

anyhoo - nice to meet you! i'll be back!

enjoy your adventure!

3:05 AM  
Blogger Natalie said...

I was never spanked as a child and I don't plan to spank my children. I would get things taken away from me and, even at a very young age, it mattered a lot. I would get talked to and told why I was being punished and then I would be punished.

It started as being sent to my room but since i was very happy to play alone that wasn't much of a punishment. I was then sent to the bathroom and the tub toys were removed. I hated that! It was very effective.

I am sure every kid is different but I think you can raise very productive children without any physical violence.

3:37 AM  
Blogger CM-Chap said...

Hey Have a gr8 time buddy

9:56 AM  
Blogger Drama Queen said...

I don't remember ever being smacked but remember the threat of it. The threat was enough.

9:34 PM  
Blogger Alyssa said...

You've made some very interesting points, as have the many commenters. My two cents:

I don't think you have to spank in order to be a good parent or to raise children who know the word "no" and who are taught to respect others.

I'm not against spanking if parents feel that this technique works best for themselves and their children, but as a child who was never - NEVER - spanked, I can tell you that I, just as well as you, learned to respect my parents and obeyed as well -or better- than many of my spanked peers. I never - again, NEVER - threw temper tantrums in the mall, hit my parents, broke other people's property, or any of the other things that some suggest are caused by a lack of spankings.

What matters is not the method of discipline, but the consistancy and principles taught, right from a young age.

I think to believe the blanket statement that the only way to teach kids is to spank them shows a lack of creativity and perhaps - dare I say it - lazy parenting.

To point to a kid throwing a temper tantrum in a mall and say they need more spankings is totally misreading the situation. What they need is a firm hand and a consistant parent who does not allow that behavior to continue. Whether they stop it with a "spanking" or another form of discipline (and if you look into it, there are many methods which are effective)is irrelivant. The point is, they need to be told no.

A very thought-provoking post - thanks for the interesting read.

9:05 AM  
Blogger BadTux said...

Just for the record, while I have no problem with spanking as a method of discipline other than that it is too easy and thus too many parents use it as a crutch, it really isn't necessary to deal with children small enough to be restrained and frog-marched. When I worked in a behavior center for mentally disturbed children, we never had to apply any sort of pain to our children. We simply communicated our expectations, communicated what the consequences would be, and if the child misbehaved, enforced the consequences -- up to, and including, physically restraining the child and removing him (or her) to a timeout area if necessary. A *boring* timeout area. That they weren't allowed to leave for the given amount of time. That screaming and shouting and fighting it would just extend their time there.

And if you say, "but that won't work on non-verbal children!" -- I tried it on my cats, who are certainly verbal (meow! meow! meow! meow!) but don't seem to understand a thing I tell them (or like a disobedient child simply won't listen). My grey-and-white cat no longer bites me, and my black cat no longer fights and scratches me if I place him on my shoulders to hug him and rub him. I did not spank them (spanking does not work on cats, BTW -- it merely makes them spank right back, and their claws are *sharp* as are their fangs), if they misbehaved they simply lost my attention -- I would put them down and walk away from them and wouldn't interact with them for several minutes. Since they love getting ear rubs and belly rubs, this disturbed them enough that eventually they quit doing the bad behavior.

My problem with spanking is that it's easy to overuse. If a child breaks something in the house, the correct response is not to spank him. The correct response is to make him work to "fix" it. ("fix" in quotes, because of course a very young child can't really be expected to make everything right, but the point is to match the consequence to the behavior). Spanking is something you do *after* that, when he refuses to accept the natural consequences of his actions. It isn't something to use because you're too lazy or stupid to properly teach your child that actions have consequences.

10:47 AM  
Blogger nasia said...

Wonderful!!
My mom too was jst like ur parents,, that me nad my bro were very disciplined kids. we grew up to be pretty much wat we had to.. but we were good kids,, that i m sure..
But i being the soft hearted piscean i can already see myself in place of the mom u met shopping..
Come back soon!

6:50 AM  
Blogger zanas said...

negotiating and explaining doesn't work for my kids. they don't take me seriously when i reasoned with them nicely. but when i started to scream and spanked them, only then they knew that i wasn't joking and won't take anymore of such nonsense. i guess every parents should know their kids well enough to decide the kind of discipline that works for them.

1:57 AM  
Blogger The Stormin Mormon said...

Looking back upon my formative years, spankings were the most effective punishment available, and I don't know how parents these days can get by without them.

It's an immediate and noticeable PHYSICAL pain, that teaches a negative consequence for a negative action.

When I was old enough to understand money, my parents never spanked me. They fined me... And that was far worse than some physical pain (and at an age when I could understand it, an effective lesson about punishment in society today).

2:19 PM  
Blogger Keshi said...

I was a good kid...but thats how I was born. No matter how good/bad the parents r, kids will be what they r born to be...trust me when I say this cos I hv seen GREAT parents with TERRIBLE kids.

Keshi.

1:37 PM  
Blogger Logziella said...

I could not have said it better myself!!! I have 3 little ones and there is NO TALKING SENSE into them. We spank when necessary but I will tell you that the more consistant you are with it, the less you will be doing it. And one more thing...never spank in anger...that is wrong. Spank the very first time the violation occurs. Then you won't be spanking in anger or giving empty threats. Your children will learn to obey you the first time and not the fourth time. Oh, there's so much more to say but I will stop now. Great post!!!!!! You are very wise for not having children of your own!

4:58 AM  
Blogger Behind Blue Eyes said...

Oh, I don't spank my kids and they are fine. I don't think it's horrible to spank your kids, it kinda depends on how it's done, but I have been able to discipline mine without needing to spank. I've found that you can stop a kid from doing something they are not supposed to do without spanking them. Maybe my girls just have good natures or something. When my younger daughter was small she wanted to go up the steps and I just didn't let her. If she tried, I picked her up and brought her somewhere else. So, she found that she couldn't go up the steps so she stopped trying.

My younger has acted horrible in restaurants a few times and I got lots of dirty looks because I suppose I was supposed to spank her or something. Thing is, she was hungry and it was my fault and I didn't spank her because she was too small to be able to communicate in any other way. Another time, my older one threw a fit in walmart. Another dirty look from a woman who thought I should spank her but it was such unusual behaviour from her that I knew there was somthing wrong and I was right, she was sick.

I think there are many paths and they can all lead to the same goal. And as far as those people staring at me, they should have minded their own business. Of course, the incident you are describing was much different than what I'm talking about. There was obviously something major wrong.

11:51 PM  
Blogger `NEFTY said...

Agree-able:]

One thing that's horrible IS actually hitting children in public, but that's just my opinion.

12:00 PM  
Blogger nithin ramachandran said...

I guess theres so much insight into the article. Thoughtful i must say and yes ....some facts are painful, but when you get to see the whole picture, your thankful for it ....

7:41 PM  
Blogger ThanKwee-Anajo said...

All this talk about spanking seems kinda kinky to me!

6:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We weren't spanked much as kids but when we were it was memorable. The whip was hanging in the parent's closet and they knew how to use it. After enough was enough, they'd tell us to go upstairs and get undressed. Then we knew we were going to get it.

12:29 PM  

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